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	<title>Comments on: A Glimpse of a Future Transit Option (for a short time, at least)</title>
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	<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2010/01/03/a-glimpse-of-a-future-transit-option-for-a-short-time-at-least/</link>
	<description>&#34;Be the change you wish to see in the world.&#34; — Mahatma Gandhi</description>
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		<title>By: David Drucker</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2010/01/03/a-glimpse-of-a-future-transit-option-for-a-short-time-at-least/comment-page-1/#comment-19487</link>
		<dc:creator>David Drucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=1606#comment-19487</guid>
		<description>The whole thing seems a bit like a hand-wave, doesn&#039;t it? It&#039;s an incredibly short distance (walking time is roughly 35 minutes, if you take a leisurely pace. Regardless of logistics, aesthetics and politics, I think they lost a major opportunity by not putting it in while they were building the Olympic Village. Heck, they could have built some fancy pedestrian overpasses in some places, dipped it down lower, and made the whole thing another reason to buy in the village (&quot;Moving here from Yaletown? Get on the tram and be back in your favourite haunts in a few minutes.&quot;) As it is,  the current stretch only goes by a bunch of property that is owned by the city (the houses next to False Creek are leaseholds, which makes them bad investments, hence they tend to be bought by older folks who are not as concerned about reselling them, or they rent them to others for the income.) It was not much of a shock to simply improve some of the tracks, especially since that cute, Disney-ish antique car was running on weekends in the summer.

I guess there &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; tons of projects and little money, but we need this transit. It&#039;s the only way we&#039;ll really be able to densify the city without introducing more and more cars.  As I was looking at the map of the medievally- laid out Bruges, where the streetcar was built, I wondered how much of that town was traversable by these same vehicles. Europe is so much farther along. Some of these medieval villages will be so much more sustainable when the oil begins to run out.

In the US, I remember their deep-seated hatred of mass transit (at least everyone except some of the left). It really does fall right down party lines. The Center (what little there is of it) and Right think it&#039;s a symptom of the dreaded &#039;Socialism&#039;. For many, they believe that having an affordable car is a more basic right than affordable healthcare. I&#039;m not kidding. It&#039;s the base assumption for nearly all urban (and suburban) planning in the US, to this day.

Then when I moved here, I felt as if I&#039;d moved a little farther along the continuum. In Vancouver, we say we want mass transit, but we keep coming up with excuses why we don&#039;t put it in here or there. For example, when we were first looking for a place to live here, the realtor we were working with actually advised us against being near a Skytrain stop because they were seen as magnets for crime, because someone from outside the area could break-in, take something, run to the Skytrain, and be away before they could be caught. I don&#039;t know how widespread that belief is, but it&#039;s a slightly less negative objection than the &#039;You&#039;re turning us all into commies if you ride one of those things&#039; argument from the States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole thing seems a bit like a hand-wave, doesn’t it? It’s an incredibly short distance (walking time is roughly 35 minutes, if you take a leisurely pace. Regardless of logistics, aesthetics and politics, I think they lost a major opportunity by not putting it in while they were building the Olympic Village. Heck, they could have built some fancy pedestrian overpasses in some places, dipped it down lower, and made the whole thing another reason to buy in the village (“Moving here from Yaletown? Get on the tram and be back in your favourite haunts in a few minutes.”) As it is,  the current stretch only goes by a bunch of property that is owned by the city (the houses next to False Creek are leaseholds, which makes them bad investments, hence they tend to be bought by older folks who are not as concerned about reselling them, or they rent them to others for the income.) It was not much of a shock to simply improve some of the tracks, especially since that cute, Disney-ish antique car was running on weekends in the summer.</p>
<p>I guess there <em>are</em> tons of projects and little money, but we need this transit. It’s the only way we’ll really be able to densify the city without introducing more and more cars.  As I was looking at the map of the medievally– laid out Bruges, where the streetcar was built, I wondered how much of that town was traversable by these same vehicles. Europe is so much farther along. Some of these medieval villages will be so much more sustainable when the oil begins to run out.</p>
<p>In the US, I remember their deep-seated hatred of mass transit (at least everyone except some of the left). It really does fall right down party lines. The Center (what little there is of it) and Right think it’s a symptom of the dreaded ‘Socialism’. For many, they believe that having an affordable car is a more basic right than affordable healthcare. I’m not kidding. It’s the base assumption for nearly all urban (and suburban) planning in the US, to this day.</p>
<p>Then when I moved here, I felt as if I’d moved a little farther along the continuum. In Vancouver, we say we want mass transit, but we keep coming up with excuses why we don’t put it in here or there. For example, when we were first looking for a place to live here, the realtor we were working with actually advised us against being near a Skytrain stop because they were seen as magnets for crime, because someone from outside the area could break-in, take something, run to the Skytrain, and be away before they could be caught. I don’t know how widespread that belief is, but it’s a slightly less negative objection than the ‘You’re turning us all into commies if you ride one of those things’ argument from the States.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2010/01/03/a-glimpse-of-a-future-transit-option-for-a-short-time-at-least/comment-page-1/#comment-19486</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=1606#comment-19486</guid>
		<description>Agreed, David. The #84, or the Broadway #9/#99 will get you to either station on the Olympic line. Switching at Main is indeed a pain, better to hoof it.

Past Cambie, the tracks run just north of 1st - presumably this would be require it to pass through/around a security zone ... would be a challenge being so close to the athlete&#039;s residences. You could fence both sides but that would be costly and not exactly aesthetically pleasing.
Possible that there&#039;s other contributing logistic issues and associated costs that made the extension a no go.

Notwithstanding, I wonder how much effort was put to the question. Would City Hall have debated this with VANOC? Would be interesting to ask the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, David. The #84, or the Broadway #9/#99 will get you to either station on the Olympic line. Switching at Main is indeed a pain, better to hoof it.</p>
<p>Past Cambie, the tracks run just north of 1st — presumably this would be require it to pass through/around a security zone … would be a challenge being so close to the athlete’s residences. You could fence both sides but that would be costly and not exactly aesthetically pleasing.<br />
Possible that there’s other contributing logistic issues and associated costs that made the extension a no go.</p>
<p>Notwithstanding, I wonder how much effort was put to the question. Would City Hall have debated this with VANOC? Would be interesting to ask the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Winters</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2010/01/03/a-glimpse-of-a-future-transit-option-for-a-short-time-at-least/comment-page-1/#comment-19485</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Winters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 00:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=1606#comment-19485</guid>
		<description>I expect if the planning and implementation of the Olympic Village had been a bit more clear, the line would&#039;ve followed the complete Vancouver Downtown Historic Railway route, but as it is, they&#039;re driving dumptrucks and things all over the eastern half of the line.

It would also have required Bombardier supply at least another streetcar trainset and--I&#039;m guessing--some right-of-way work. The current modernized line required a junction track be installed to allow the operation of more than one car at a time as it is.

I think the Downtown Streetcar project would be nice to have, but it&#039;s not that useful to me personally. Certainly, the Broadway skytrain extension and the Evergreen Line should remain a priority. That said, I&#039;d be &lt;em&gt;far&lt;/em&gt; more likely to support the thing if it went from Gastown or Yaletown to Granville Island and then down the existing Arbutus right-of-way to Marine Drive. And hey, they&#039;d have to knock down the Starbucks in front of Granville Island to boot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I expect if the planning and implementation of the Olympic Village had been a bit more clear, the line would’ve followed the complete Vancouver Downtown Historic Railway route, but as it is, they’re driving dumptrucks and things all over the eastern half of the line.</p>
<p>It would also have required Bombardier supply at least another streetcar trainset and–I’m guessing–some right-of-way work. The current modernized line required a junction track be installed to allow the operation of more than one car at a time as it is.</p>
<p>I think the Downtown Streetcar project would be nice to have, but it’s not that useful to me personally. Certainly, the Broadway skytrain extension and the Evergreen Line should remain a priority. That said, I’d be <em>far</em> more likely to support the thing if it went from Gastown or Yaletown to Granville Island and then down the existing Arbutus right-of-way to Marine Drive. And hey, they’d have to knock down the Starbucks in front of Granville Island to boot!</p>
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		<title>By: West End Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2010/01/03/a-glimpse-of-a-future-transit-option-for-a-short-time-at-least/comment-page-1/#comment-19484</link>
		<dc:creator>West End Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 00:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=1606#comment-19484</guid>
		<description>Hopefully, with enough positive input from the public, this may be an option for the future.  Expanding the line would be even better!

Thanks for the info and pic, David . . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully, with enough positive input from the public, this may be an option for the future.  Expanding the line would be even better!</p>
<p>Thanks for the info and pic, David .…</p>
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