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	<title>Comments on: Fireworks and Fiscal Ruin</title>
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	<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/</link>
	<description>&#34;Be the change you wish to see in the world.&#34; — Mahatma Gandhi</description>
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		<title>By: David Drucker</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/comment-page-1/#comment-13207</link>
		<dc:creator>David Drucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=403#comment-13207</guid>
		<description>Welcome to BC, Douglas (or Doug, if you prefer). I must admit that I probably post a lot less about our move here and the differences between the States and Canada, as we now call this place home and feel that way about it. Still, every now and again I&#039;ll see something that reminds me of how great a divide there really is between us and the country to the south and will write about it. If you want to see some stuff that might be more pertinent to your situation, you can check some older posts from say, late 2005 and 2006.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to BC, Douglas (or Doug, if you prefer). I must admit that I probably post a lot less about our move here and the differences between the States and Canada, as we now call this place home and feel that way about it. Still, every now and again I’ll see something that reminds me of how great a divide there really is between us and the country to the south and will write about it. If you want to see some stuff that might be more pertinent to your situation, you can check some older posts from say, late 2005 and 2006.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Gradecki</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/comment-page-1/#comment-13205</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Gradecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=403#comment-13205</guid>
		<description>I found your post through the link at Moved to Vancouver and find it interesting.  My partner and I made the move last fall, after a 27 month wait for processing of immigration info, and are not looking back. I too wish we had started earlier but we were lucky to sell our home in WI, at a discount, and drove west to Vancouver Island to start in a new wonderful country that actually appreciates us.  I always find it interesting to read of others who made the move and their reasons for doing so.  I&#039;ll be bookmarking your blog for weekly reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your post through the link at Moved to Vancouver and find it interesting.  My partner and I made the move last fall, after a 27 month wait for processing of immigration info, and are not looking back. I too wish we had started earlier but we were lucky to sell our home in WI, at a discount, and drove west to Vancouver Island to start in a new wonderful country that actually appreciates us.  I always find it interesting to read of others who made the move and their reasons for doing so.  I’ll be bookmarking your blog for weekly reading.</p>
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		<title>By: David Drucker</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/comment-page-1/#comment-13096</link>
		<dc:creator>David Drucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=403#comment-13096</guid>
		<description>As a commenter points out on the page linking to &#039;The Bolt&#039;,  there&#039;s probably some number at which it&#039;s OK to have some debt:

&lt;blockquote&gt;...the optimum amount of debt is not zero. There are two reasons the government needs debt. Firstly, and most importantly, the government debt can be used to leverage GDP growth provided it&#039;s invested in government spending that contributes to future GDP. For example, borrowing a sum of money to invest in resource exploitation, or better vocational training for the citizenry increases future GDP. Secondly, the financial services industry, especially defined benefit pension plans and banking institutions depend on zero-risk government bonds to remove risk from their portfolios and they depend on government treasure bills for short term liquidity. The advantage to the national financial system outweighs the national cost of debt service.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Given the choice between paying down the debt faster (say, within the next 15-20 years) or...investing in an infrastructure that will help Canada deal with the eventual move away from an oil-based economy (whether by choice or due to further shortages/environmental damages), I&#039;d be in favour of putting  &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; of it toward encouraging further progress on that front.
I wonder how Estonian finances are these days? They&#039;re the newest member of the EU, and perhaps their budgeting is still influenced by Soviet-style management. Interesting that Germany and France are so high - I never would have guessed it, given their standard of living.

As with all metrics, debt/GDP can&#039;t be taken in a vacuum, and the direction that number is going is also extremely important.

I wonder if there is a group that looks at the &#039;health&#039; of countries based on a variety of factors (aforementioned debt/GDP, Quality of Life index, Natural Resources, Level of Corruption, etc.) to come up with an overall rating (like a Bond rating). I&#039;ve never heard of one, and the Economist listings we used to get rarely go much deeper than one or two of those factors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a commenter points out on the page linking to ‘The Bolt’,  there’s probably some number at which it’s OK to have some debt:</p>
<blockquote><p>…the optimum amount of debt is not zero. There are two reasons the government needs debt. Firstly, and most importantly, the government debt can be used to leverage GDP growth provided it’s invested in government spending that contributes to future GDP. For example, borrowing a sum of money to invest in resource exploitation, or better vocational training for the citizenry increases future GDP. Secondly, the financial services industry, especially defined benefit pension plans and banking institutions depend on zero-risk government bonds to remove risk from their portfolios and they depend on government treasure bills for short term liquidity. The advantage to the national financial system outweighs the national cost of debt service.</p></blockquote>
<p>Given the choice between paying down the debt faster (say, within the next 15–20 years) or…investing in an infrastructure that will help Canada deal with the eventual move away from an oil-based economy (whether by choice or due to further shortages/environmental damages), I’d be in favour of putting  <em>some</em> of it toward encouraging further progress on that front.<br />
I wonder how Estonian finances are these days? They’re the newest member of the EU, and perhaps their budgeting is still influenced by Soviet-style management. Interesting that Germany and France are so high — I never would have guessed it, given their standard of living.</p>
<p>As with all metrics, debt/GDP can’t be taken in a vacuum, and the direction that number is going is also extremely important.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a group that looks at the ‘health’ of countries based on a variety of factors (aforementioned debt/GDP, Quality of Life index, Natural Resources, Level of Corruption, etc.) to come up with an overall rating (like a Bond rating). I’ve never heard of one, and the Economist listings we used to get rarely go much deeper than one or two of those factors.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Cousineau</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/comment-page-1/#comment-13094</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Cousineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=403#comment-13094</guid>
		<description>I had to take one last kick at this can.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Debt to GDP in the EU by country&lt;/a&gt;. They&#039;re all over the place. Lowlights: Germany, 65%; France, 64%; Italy, 104%; my beloved Greece: 95%.

OTOH, Ireland at 25%, Denmark at 26%, and numerous small countries in the 0-20% range, with Estonia leading the pack at 3.4%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to take one last kick at this can.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states" rel="nofollow">Debt to GDP in the EU by country</a>. They’re all over the place. Lowlights: Germany, 65%; France, 64%; Italy, 104%; my beloved Greece: 95%.</p>
<p>OTOH, Ireland at 25%, Denmark at 26%, and numerous small countries in the 0–20% range, with Estonia leading the pack at 3.4%.</p>
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		<title>By: David Drucker</title>
		<link>http://www.loudmurmurs.com/2008/07/28/fireworks-and-fiscal-ruin/comment-page-1/#comment-13090</link>
		<dc:creator>David Drucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.loudmurmurs.com/?p=403#comment-13090</guid>
		<description>Raul - I&#039;ll be there...
Bob - Link Away... :)

Good point, Ryan. The ratio of debt to GDP is a good indicator of a country&#039;s fiscal &#039;health&#039;. It&#039;s a little disquieting that Canada&#039;s debt/GDP was so high as recently as 5 years ago. I can only hope that the country continues to live within its means, which may become more difficult as prices go up world-wide (but a stronger dollar does help there).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raul — I’ll be there…<br />
Bob — Link Away… <img src='http://www.loudmurmurs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Good point, Ryan. The ratio of debt to GDP is a good indicator of a country’s fiscal ‘health’. It’s a little disquieting that Canada’s debt/GDP was so high as recently as 5 years ago. I can only hope that the country continues to live within its means, which may become more difficult as prices go up world-wide (but a stronger dollar does help there).</p>
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